Talk:Getting Real
I was hoping to get a copy of this, but the store most likely to carry Asimov's is about 100 miles away. TR 15:33, 21 February 2009 (UTC) Indeed. I have gotten into the habit of checking the contents page of SF magazines for HT's name whenever I see a copy. Last weekend I saw this in a bookstore and so in keeping with the tenets of my religion (I'm a devout cheapskate), I borrowed it from a library branch that carries Asimov's. This is the first chance I have had to write it up and it will take a while. Although its only 25 pages, it has six POVs, dozens of minor characters including "avatars" and hallucinations and all sorts of places and things. ML4E 16:02, 21 February 2009 (UTC) :Sounds like a rather uncomfortable story. So he's warning that if we can't get out of hock from China they'll do unto us as the British did unto them in the early-mid nineteenth century? :Tell me that people realize they're being done unto as the British did unto the Chinese. There's more parallelism here than 191, and probably on a par with WBtP. And it's set in the same timeline. Turtle Fan 17:54, 21 February 2009 (UTC) ::Well, based only on the articles, I'd say more that HT is warning us (as did others through most of the last six years) we'll be done unto by the Chinese, period. Since the Opium Wars are one of the classic screw-jobs of the modern era, they just provided a good model. TR 18:04, 21 February 2009 (UTC) ::::^ ::::This. Plus a call for a realistic foreign policy. A couple of other characters besides Hu also tut-tut the U.S.'s refusal to acknowledge it isn't what it used to be and act accordingly. Also two U.S. military POVs wonder if it will be as easy as their superiors make it out to be especially since it wasn't the last time they tangled with China. The cherry on top is that one of these POVs is a sailor on the USS Rumsfeld whose (failed) mission is to sneak up to Catalina, shell it and then scoot away. ML4E 00:07, 22 February 2009 (UTC) :::::Not assuming we're on top of the world is a good idea. Better a fictional shock like reading about this happening to us than a real shock like having it actually happen. Poor late Qing Chinese--They just never saw it coming. Turtle Fan 02:23, 22 February 2009 (UTC) :::::By the way, the title certainly seems to make sense on that level. Turtle Fan 02:28, 22 February 2009 (UTC) ::::::It does doesn't it. HT uses variations on that pun throughout the story. ML4E 02:53, 22 February 2009 (UTC) :::Could be. :::Hey, this story's going to give us our thousandth American, won't it? Turtle Fan 18:12, 21 February 2009 (UTC) ::::Looks like. And our 20th Chinese-yay!. ::::EDIT:Oops, my bad, it's only the 11th. :::::Only eleven Chinese? We could shake some more loose from TL-127 easily enough. :::::So one fifth of our articles are on Americans. Makes me wonder how many are characters in general. Turtle Fan 21:26, 21 February 2009 (UTC) ::::::I was trying to come up with a way to do a count. The obvious starting point is counting the number of characters per story, until one realizes that historical figures may appear in several stories. Then there's nationality, but there are still those errant Slovaks and Yugoslavs who will slip through that particular net. So I'm not sure where to go for that info. ::::::The obvious answer is to redunantly list everyone in the Character category, but I don't think I care enough to list them and then unlist them. TR 22:03, 21 February 2009 (UTC) :::::::Characters By Story might work. The double- and triple-listed characters are historicals, and they make up a rather small portion of the overall total. So it will give us a near enough estimate to figure out overall proportion. :::::::Anything else--nationality, religion, occupation--would be too incomplete. Turtle Fan 02:23, 22 February 2009 (UTC) ::::This does sound like a good one. I really wish a better bookstore were nearby. TR 18:32, 21 February 2009 (UTC) :::::Despite the fact that getting unbelievably chemically altered as hell is a central theme, I find the idea of the story a bit too sobering for my taste. Who wants to think about his own country getting the Opium War treatment? ::::::The story is clear that its not chemical but some sort of direct stimulation of the brain. Probably shouldn't be in the "Drugs" category but the U.S. characters treat it as such. ML4E 00:07, 22 February 2009 (UTC) :::::::Not a chemical? Hmm, odd. Anyway, they get altered. Turtle Fan 02:23, 22 February 2009 (UTC) ::::::::Its like present day electrodes stimulating parts of the brain but without wires. The story has some ambiguity on whether and how people are altered. I'll get into that when I write up a Real user POV. ::::::::The way Hu explains it, its more like a super-duper, next generation wide screen TV with surround sound, smellorama and touchie-feelie options. Real directly stimulates the brain in the sensory sections to give a life-like simulation of reality. But if you have better things to do, then it is no more addictive than TV. ML4E 02:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC) :::::::::Is that how Hu explains it to the US? Because he's got an interest in skewing perceptions. From the last line of his article, he privately seems to recognize it as directly parallel to opium, :::::::::Otherwise, to what extent are you guiding your hallucinations, and to what extent do they pop up and take you for a ride? Turtle Fan 15:31, 22 February 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::You have an avatar appear and offer it to you. If you accept, you get the little square and place it on the side of your head and the hallucination begins. You control your own actions but the situation and other characters are created for you. Sort of role-playing with a dungeon-master in charge. You decide what you do and then deal with the D-M controlled reactions. ML4E 01:15, 23 February 2009 (UTC) :::::::::::I read the first 10 pages, but I missed just how the user paid for the drug. TR 01:17, 23 February 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::::As far as I can see, they were all freebees or as Hu put it "gifts". Kojima sarcastically said all pushers tell users that the first one is free to get them hooked but I don't recall Pablo paid for any of his three "getting Real" experiences. ML4E 01:53, 23 February 2009 (UTC) :::::Meanwhile, while I can see the US knocked down to the second tier within the next century, I find it much harder to imagine China moving up to fill the void. China's rise sowed the seeds of its own downfall even before the whole world became a basket case, and now that it is the rude awakening in Beijing seems even closer. When I'm feeling gloomy I can imagine them pulling others down, but pushing them down? No. Turtle Fan 21:26, 21 February 2009 (UTC) :Ugh, the most devastating part of this story is being FROM coastal Los Angeles. Catalina Island is visible from my parents house. I grew up in San Pedro. I just read most of the story on Asimov's online (http://www.asimovs.com/_issue_0903/gettingreal.shtml), and it made my heart hurt. Elefuntboy 23:05, 21 February 2009 (UTC) ::First ten of 25 pages anyway. ML4E 00:10, 22 February 2009 (UTC) :::I don't like LA but I really hate to think of this happening to anyone again. So no, I won't read the story, it's too upsetting. Turtle Fan 02:23, 22 February 2009 (UTC) Ah yes, I'd forgotten about this one for the 2009 works. Truth be told, I try not to think about it for much of any reason at all; it sorta gives me the willies. Turtle Fan 19:08, October 23, 2009 (UTC) Adam, when the parallelism is so obvious we generally don't bother pointing it out. Stories like An Emperor for the Legion are subtle enough in their borrowing of historical events that pointing it out can be worthwhile. This, though? Obvious is obvious. Turtle Fan 23:51, March 26, 2010 (UTC) :I don't mind that type of thing in the articles about the story/novel/whatever. I'd like to see more depth than "China does to the US in this story what Britain did to China in OTL." TR 02:11, March 27, 2010 (UTC) Renewed relevance Listening to NPR today--the issue with the US debt ceiling has China saying out loud "We really hope the US isn't going to default on us." And military leaders from both countries will be present during a sitdown later this week. TR 16:49, May 9, 2011 (UTC) :I happen to think that if the US economy really imploded (even more than it has already) it would drag China down. People worry that once they hold all the cards they'll ruin us and be done with us, but that would likely be even worse for them. No one wants to own the debt of someone who can't pay no matter how hard you shake him down. Turtle Fan 19:13, May 9, 2011 (UTC) ::Oh, no doubt. China's discomfort is clearly based on the fact that their economy is threatened, and there isn't a whole hell of a lot they can do about it beyond say "Gee, please don't default." If we turned around and said "Aww, China, you used to be cool," they would certainly respond with "Hey, China's cool. You pay later." ::I just find the whole situation amusing. TR 20:39, May 9, 2011 (UTC) :::Your conceptualized dialogue of it certainly is. :::Unfortunately, that's not the most amusing Chinese thing I've heard today. I mentioned at work that I've been to Singapore and was rewarded with "There are a lot of Asians there!" In an Asian city? Well don't that beat all. . . . Turtle Fan 00:25, May 10, 2011 (UTC) Never reprinted? I'm surprised this has never been reprinted, whether in an HT collection or a dystopian anthology. It has all the quintessential elements of the worst-case future dystopia genre which is absurdly popular, i.e. The Hunger Games or The Maze Runner. I myself am not too keen on any of the works named, but they are inexplicably popular.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 18:51, July 18, 2019 (UTC) :I'm not a fan either. I do insist that my fiction be uplifting in some peripheral way. Turtle Fan (talk) 19:12, July 19, 2019 (UTC)